Spider-Man fans don’t think two major characters will ever make the jump to the MCU.

Both Harry Osborn and Gwen Stacy had prominent roles in the Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield Spider-Men movies, but have yet to appear in the MCU. Harry is the son of Green Goblin, AKA Norman Osborn, and becomes a villain in his own right. Gwen Stacy, meanwhile, is Peter Parker’s girlfriend, who dies tragically (not to be confused with Spider-Gwen, a different incarnation of the character via the multiverse and a main character in the animated Spider-Verse movies).

“Harry and Gwen will never be introduced into the MCU,” posted one fan to Reddit, going on to say that neither character “is on the level of a Lois Lane or Alfred where they must be included in every adaptation.”

“Harry, while yes – he is Peter’s best friend in the comics – has been dead since the 90s, and Peter has other friends who can fill that role, like Randy Robertson, Johnny Storm, or Daredevil,” they add. “And Gwen? You can replace her death with anyone else to teach Peter the lesson that he can’t save everyone. That’s exactly what the MCU did by giving her narrative role to May.”

It turns out fans are in agreement. “Yeah I mean I feel like No Way Home addressed a lot of this during the sequence with the three Spider-Men trying to develop the cures. Ned is the Harry of the MCU. Aunt May serves as both Aunt May and Uncle Ben. For Tobey it was Ben, for Andrew it was Gwen, and for Tom it’s May,” says another fan. “That being said, Miles [Morales] is 100% coming into the MCU, probably sooner than we think, and you can bet your ass that Gwen’s gonna show up in that storyline.”

“No Way Home was pretty explicit that, at least at that time, Oscorp did not exist in the 616,” says someone else.

“If there was a movie for Peter to get another love interest and new best friend it would’ve been this one, the fact he couldn’t move on and build something meaningful outside of Ned and MJ tells you it’s never gonna happen,” agrees another person.

“I think it’s more that their stories might be difficult to tell with what Peter learned in NWH,” thinks someone else. “Like imagine a guy named Harry Osborn shows up in his life. If Pete isn’t like ‘gotta stay the fuck away from this dude’ I’d look at him crazy. Gwen? ‘Oof not dating her, she gon die,'” points out another person.

“I was convinced Harry was MJ’s new boyfriend, and the corporate job she got at was Oscorp. I also thought Gwen was his apartment neighbour, and I thought for a sec that the event he crashed while chasing Jean was a party honouring Captain Stacy,” says another fan – there have been theories that Eman Esfandi’s Marvel character, introduced in Spider-Man: Brand New Day, is indeed Harry Osborn, though the film gives nothing concrete away.

So far, the future of Tom Holland’s Peter Parker is unknown, though Brand New Day ended with the promise that “Spider-Man will return.” Whether that return includes Gwen Stacy or Harry Osborn remains to be seen.

Next up for Marvel is VisionQuest, which arrives this October 13. In the meantime, check out our guide to all the upcoming Marvel movies and TV shows for everything else the MCU has in store.