Following years of games industry woes and multiple waves of layoffs out of Microsoft, Tim Schafer – founder of the formerly Xbox-owned studio Double Fine – says he doesn’t understand the economics of the industry anymore.

The most recent of Microsoft‘s now yearly layoffs will see 3,200 Xbox employees lose their roles before the end of the 2027 fiscal year. Alongside this, Double Fine, Compulsion Games, and Undead Labs went independent from the publisher, Ninja Theory is now at risk of closing after multiple purchase attempts fell through, and Arkane’s fate is up in the air. While Double Fine has had to lay off staff following this change, the studio is taking to Kickstarter to fund its next “small” game, with Tim Schafer saying “no one puts Double Fine out of business except for me.”

Speaking to BBC News (below), Schafer says that in this modern day, “I don’t understand the economics of making games to be honest.” He explains, “for years [I] thought I understood them because there are layoffs, which is bad. And then the people who make games realize, ‘Oh, we need people to make games,'” which in turn resulted in developers being hired back.

However, now in an era where the industry is in the midst of a major struggle, Schafer says it’s no longer a cycle of ups and downs: “It’s been down for like four years and I don’t know why.” He adds, “people are playing games and people are making money, so I don’t know why there’s a big loss of jobs. I just assume it’s like, someone is being greedy somewhere,” saying, “I hope it is a cycle, and I hope it bounces back.”

However, Schafer doesn’t see it as the end, adding, “I think there’s a lot of life and excitement and creativity in the games industry now; especially in the indie space,” although he isn’t “one of those snobs” who says AAA games can’t be creative.

Schafer notes, “it’s been a much more violent place to work in AAA,” explaining, “your work is often not as rewarded, because you will get laid off as soon as you finish your game,” Which, unfortunately we see pretty often as of late, with games like Star Wars Zero Company and Gears Of War: E-Day staff being laid off following the game going gold. Not to mention Battlefield 6 was so successful that EA CEO Andrew Wilson got a massive bonus, shortly after the developers who actually made the game were laid off by the company.